From Gaza, with Love

Thursday, June 28, 2007

10 Comments:

Hello, this is my first time on your blog. I am a resident of the USA and are trying to learn more about the Palestinian situation. Although I am not a supporter of Hamas tactics, they did win the elections and should be alloted the opportunity to implement their goals. I do wish my government would not take sides in the conflict and let the Palestinians sort it out for themselves. They deserve that much.

Best wishes,
krjudd

By Unknown, at 7/01/2007 9:12 AM
Kenneth: I am an American and like most Americans, I believe Palestinians are entitled to freely choose their leaders. However, holding an election does not automatically entitle Palestinians to American taxpayer largess. Hamas' views are antithetical to American values; they are overtly sexist, genocidal, and intolerant (read their charter). It would be a travesty for America to support them in any way.

Of course Fatah is corrupt to the core and problematic in many other ways so I do not suggest we support them either.

I agree with you that America should not take sides and should instead let Palestinians make their own choices. However Palestinians must understand that they will have to live with the consequences of their choices and if they choose misogynistic intolerant fanatics, they cannot expect American support or sympathy.

I would be interested in hearing about potential Palestinian leaders who wish to find reasonable solutions to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and lead the Palestinian people out of their misery into peace and prosperity...As an American, I would happily support such Palestinian leadership; do you know of any?

By LogicalDave, at 7/03/2007 7:24 AM
Peace is possible. You must look at who is against peace to discover why peace has been so illusive. See the United States of Israel-Palestine blog for more on this topic.

By Paradigm, at 7/03/2007 8:25 PM
hi from Germany _ Afghanistan

By Unknown, at 7/07/2007 12:13 AM
hi .............
360.yahoo.com/hieyam2000

By Unknown, at 7/07/2007 12:14 AM
Hi,

I am Law student and a keen human rights enthusiast. I read your blog and the picture you present about Gaza.
I was also looking at the opportunity of volunteering in gaza for a month. Would be glad if you could assist me with this.
adityaswarup@gmail.com

By Aditya Swarup, at 7/11/2007 11:57 AM
Hey ILlogicalDave,

Have YOU read the Hamas charter, or the PLO charter which Fatah lives by,which also doesn't recognize Israel, or the Israeli constitution which hasn't been ratified though it is almost 60 years old, or the Palestinian constitution which Abbas just trampled all over? Or are you going by what you read in our newspapers?

What action has Hamas taken that leads you to believe they are sexist? Being Islamist does mot equate to the Taliban. And BTW, what religion do you think Abbas practices, Christianity?

Israel was founded with the sole purpose of establishing a state for a single religion, and not only that, but one SECT of that religion has more rights than anyone in the country. Doesn't that make it more like a theocracy than a democracy? Does THAT represent American values?

holding an election does not automatically entitle Palestinians to American taxpayer largess. Hamas' views are antithetical to American values;

I would suggest to you that NOT supporting a democratically elected government is antithetical to American values. I would also note that Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan,Libya, and a multitude of other countries who receive American largess do not come CLOSE representing American values. You still get stoned to death in Saudi Arabia for adultery.

And let's not forget that Wahabee, the radical brand of Islam that produces many suicide bombers as well as the 9/11 hijackers, originated and is proliferated in Saudi Arabia. Talk about fanatics.

You Dave, should shove your arrogance in your back pocket for a while and study some objective material before you shoot your mouth off claiming to represent American values.

You certainly don't represent mine

By Julie, at 7/14/2007 4:14 AM
logicaldave,
There was a time when the U.S. government supported Saddam in Iraq as well as what is now the Taliban in Afghanistan. And I'm pretty sure the U.S. is cuddly with the Saudis (you might find them a bit "sexist" according to your western/american standards) Now with a track record like that, do you really think the lack of official U.S. support for HAMAS is a battle over values?

By bitchnchips, at 7/19/2007 2:06 AM
Timoteous: You are quite correct that the US government supported Saddam and the Taliban; they also supported the Shah and numerous other awful dictators. US foreign policy is often cynical and short sighted, driven by the needs of large corporations rather than the values of the American people.

I am not a fan of the current US administration and do not speak for them. My comments reflect my own views and what I believe the majority of the American people believe. What I said about Hamas' values being antithetical to American values is true (I will provide support for this in my next post); Hamas is rabidly sexist, intolerant, anti-western and anti-US...so regardless of US government positions, Americans do not support them and neither should any real progressives.

BTW, most Americans don't like the Saudis either...our government supports them because they have oil...it is very sad.

By LogicalDave, at 7/29/2007 5:11 PM
Julie:

Yes I have read the Hamas charter and will point out the sexist and intolerant articles in this post. I agree with you that US support for the Saudis (and many other brutal dictators) is terrible.

Your ad-hominem attacks (arrogance, shooting off my mouth, etc.) are rude and unnecessary; I am entitled to my opinions as you are to yours; the point of weblogs is to allow open discussion. My suggestion that most Americans oppose Hamas is not controversial (Pew Research polls indicated 50% of Americans thought the election of Hamas was bad, 20% thought it was good, 30% did not know); if you believe otherwise, please support your position.

I made no comments about the Fatah charter, Abbas, or the Israeli constitution so I'm not sure why you brought them up. I am not anti-Muslim...I have close Muslim, Jewish, Christian, and Hindu family members. I oppose intolerance from any group equally.

So back to the point; here is a link to the Hamas charter: http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

Consider article 7 which includes: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). This is about as clearly genocidal as you can get...do you support this? Do you think most Americans do?

There are too many many other virulently anti-Semitic clauses to enumerate and many generally disturbing clauses. The charter clearly advocates an Islamic world-wide hegemony as does that of the Muslim Brotherhood of which Hamas is explicitly a wing (article 2).

Article 15 includes: "I swear by the holder of Mohammed's soul that I would like to invade and be killed for the sake of Allah, then invade and be killed, and then invade again and be killed." (As related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Article 31 (like most of the Muslim brotherhood charter) suggests that world peace can only be achieved under the domination (wing) of Islam.

Articles 17, 18: "The Role of the Moslem Woman" is intensely sexist and defines the "importance" of the role of the woman in terms of child rearing, housekeeping, and "making men". This is pretty clearly sexist...do you agree with this? Do you think most Americans do?

I welcome discussion with you on this and any point. I would prefer if you could keep it polite, and encourage you again to read the Hamas charter and decide for yourself whether what I said was unreasonable or not.

Please note that I was am not advocating for Israel or Fatah. In fact, I'm not a big fan of either government...I was suggesting that support for Hamas was antithetical to American and progressive values...and hoping that both the Israelis and the Palestinians could rid themselves of their fanatics (or at least get them out of government) and find people willing and able to make peace so that the suffering could end and both Israelis and Palestinians could live together in peace and prosperity...what do you find objectionable in that?

LogicalDave

By LogicalDave, at 7/29/2007 6:03 PM

From Gaza, with Love

Thursday, June 28, 2007

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